OPPO: Teach me about the E60 M5

"EL_ULY" (uly) 07/16/2015 at 12:26 • Filed to: None

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Some of these fat athletes are starting to dip below the $20,000 range. Tavarishitus at full swing. Next year (fuckin hopefully if I keep busting ass at work) i’ll finally get my debts low enough to buy a new “to me” car by my b-day (big three - oh). What would one look for on these?

From what I’ve read so far...

I could probably do the job at home (timing cover, pan, bottom section, crank, caps, a shit to of seals, etc.)

Also, the dreaded VANOS. I had a hard time with it on my 95 M3, can’t imagine on this pig.

Random electrical and trim don’t scare me. I just wanted to maybe see if any of you rad people know someone who has/had one of if you own one. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! are other contenders that are going to drive me to bankruptcy (except the Lexus, dem shits are ultra solid)

Twism > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:31

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Not THAT, for a start.

How rare are the manuals versus the dual-clutch?

georgechristensen > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:31

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Peasants need not apply here. These cars are horrifyingly expensive to maintain, even by BMW or M car standards, although outside of the SMG and VANOS issues they’re fairly reliable. I wouldn’t work on one myself unless I was absolutely sure I know what I’d be doing.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:32

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Buy it from Carmax with the max care plan and drive it worry free

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:32

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My favorite BMW. The scream of the V10 is to die for. Is there any of these at Carmax? then you wouldn’t have to worry about a thing.

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:33

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Nothing should surprise you. The main downside will be of course expensive maintenance.

djmt1 > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:35

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My headteacher had one.

Its either very quiet or very loud.

The fuel tank is relatively small.

It drinks oil.

SMG is brutal at full blast.

Despite this still my favourite M5.

Also it weights about the same as an E39 M5 if you’re cross shopping them.

daender > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:40

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Supposedly the manual version of this car and the M6 are inferior to the SMG version. As in the manual doesn’t match the characteristics of the rev-happy V10. It’s one of those cars like the Eunos Cosmos or the Grand National/GNX that’re better off without a stick.

georgechristensen > Twism 07/16/2015 at 12:40

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The SMG is a single clutch gearbox, which was replaced by the much better M-DCT dual clutch. As for your question I read somewhere that SMG’s outnumber manuals 9 to 1 which sounds right given how rare they are.

Your boy, BJR > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:42

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Nah. Go full Texas. CTS-v on swangas.

DrScientist > georgechristensen 07/16/2015 at 12:46

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what’s included in “maintenance?” and how much would a standard “major maintenance” cost?

all-in for a major maintenance (every 30k miles) on a water-cooled 911, is about $900-$1200. that includes plugs, wires, oil, filters, s-belt, and checks on everything. minor maintenance on a 911 (15k miles), oil, filters and checks, runs about 4-500 at a specialty shop.

would the m5 be about the same or more?

BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:47

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Aren't you a BMW tech or something?

505 - morphine not found > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 12:55

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I haven’t even driven one, let alone own, but here are two things.

- E60 have aluminum fronts, as far as i know, which are extremely dear to mend / replace, if you hit anything.

- the M5 if very strong, and can easily overpower the driver.

This equates, at least for me: if you are planning on driving it in anger, then this car has a mighty gully to throw you into, if something goes awry....

phenotyp > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 13:15

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I’ve had two E60s— one 550 and now a 535. Both had some issues . But when they’re running, they are damn fine cars. And the most unbelievably comfortable seats in the world. I’m sure the M5s had the 20-way seats standard. Don’t know if the manuals on M5s are any diffrent than on lower 5ers, but I thought the manuals I drove were surprisingly bad— weirdly-spaced ratios, highish RPMs in 5th and 6th, longish throws, and just sort of weird. They obviously didn’t spend a whole lot of effort on the manual boxes, since the take rate was probably suuuuuper low.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > 505 - morphine not found 07/16/2015 at 13:24

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“ E60 have aluminum fronts, as far as i know, which are extremely dear to mend / replace, if you hit anything.”

Does this really affect anything? All of our Renaults use a mix of alloy and plastic front panels. Our Lagunas dont have a single metal panel forward of the doors. They’re still cheapish to fix after an accident.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 13:30

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All you need to know:

Tripper > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 13:34

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I can’t speak to ownership, but I’ve driven two, both manuals. Obviously they are a blast to drive! I’d say the only “downside” is that it handles so much like a lighter car that you don’t really feel how heavy the car is until you’re near/in the danger zone.

RallyWrench > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 13:59

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Bad idea. The S85 is an amazing thing when it’s right, but keeping it that way is painful. The early ones have an internal oil line for the VANOS that’s known for failure, I’ve seen an SMG car inexplicably break a valve spring, other cars have lunched the timing chains, and so on. The Cats cost $10,000, no shit. The SMG only shifts well in full-commando powershift mode, otherwise it’s like a 1-armed 16 year old learning to drive. They also have issues with the electrohydraulic controls for the SMG. The paint sucks, the interiors fall apart, all the cooling system plastic crumbles well before 100k, the front brakes will run you or I nearly $600 in parts alone. The electricals issues are frustrating to no end. That generation of I-Drive makes me want to shoot the dashboard, and BMW no longer supports updates of cars as new as 2006. Don’t do it, man. Just find the best E39 M5 you can afford and keep it forever, because that’s arguably the greatest US-market car BMW has ever produced, and probably the greatest sports sedan ever made. There’s a reason it’s still a benchmark car, 15 years later.

EL_ULY > 505 - morphine not found 07/16/2015 at 14:04

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great way of phasing it buddy. Much appreciated.

EL_ULY > georgechristensen 07/16/2015 at 14:05

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I’ve been wrenching on cars professionally for 13 years. Still, bimmers after 2003 car be a bit of a hassle but at the end of the day, it’s just nuts and bolts

EL_ULY > Twism 07/16/2015 at 14:05

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No me gusta clutch jobs every other year

EL_ULY > RallyWrench 07/16/2015 at 14:11

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I trust you more than most here buddy. Some of the things you mentioned didn’t put me pff one bit..... but $10,000 for cats? Fuck a duck! I’ve owned an e28 and e34. The e39 M5 is my favorite BMW hand down. I believe that sound of the V10 is but a siren and will cause me to murder all the things. E39 with a good set of headers, exhaust and intake. I can keep that beast for years and years

EL_ULY > Your boy, BJR 07/16/2015 at 14:11

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Very true... minus the swangas. I don’t want someone pointing a cuete at me

EL_ULY > phenotyp 07/16/2015 at 14:13

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that’s odd for a performance type car to be all fidgety in the trans. she is that powerful tho

EL_ULY > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/16/2015 at 14:14

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I couldn’t find any. And yes, that V10 is up there with LFA and Carrera GT as far as eargasms

EL_ULY > djmt1 07/16/2015 at 14:15

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wow i didn;t know they weighed about the same. neato :]

EL_ULY > Tripper 07/16/2015 at 14:16

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Astons feel the same way. I was reading how relatively fragile the control arms and such were on the e60 M5, that might be a bad combo

bryan40oop > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:16

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Get one with a carmax warranty. Keep in mind SMG clutch is not covered, wearable item.

JR1 > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:16

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Are you sure you can’t wait for this to go under 20K? It is everything an American luxury sedan should be.

EL_ULY > daender 07/16/2015 at 14:17

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I would think the same. High tech engine needs to be paired correctly

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:17

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If you can find one in Manual buy it since they are significantly more reliable in the long term. The manuals are unicorns but I know there was one for sale less than a month ago in Minneapolis.

However, I’d say save yourself some headache and get a clean E46 M3 for the kind of money an E60 will cost.

EL_ULY > ly2v8-Brian 07/16/2015 at 14:17

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Yeah I know buddy but I have learned something and no me gusta

EL_ULY > bryan40oop 07/16/2015 at 14:17

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I couldn’t find any but that would be the best bet for sure

EL_ULY > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 07/16/2015 at 14:18

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once one finally gets listed, it will get sold asap

EL_ULY > BReLp7dzHM3ytYsE 07/16/2015 at 14:20

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i’ve owned a bunch and have been wrenching professionally for about 13 years... but one can never know everything and the things I have about this car might be more than even I can chew, even if doing all the work myself

RallyWrench > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:20

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Oh, so good in white! That’s a lifetime keeper car, right there. And with headers and a nice exhaust, the sound is orgasmic, better than the V10, I think. The E39 M5 is the only car that everyone in my shop wants.

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:21

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I’d point you in the direction of the G8 GT for four door awesomeness. Great all around, much cheaper to maintain. The GXP would give you very similar performance to this M5 but they aren't common, so not cheap.

RallyWrench > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 07/16/2015 at 14:22

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Most extended warranties that are worth anything don’t cover 10 or 12 cylinder cars any more, because of cars like the E60 M5. They’re exorbitantly expensive to feed.

AM3R shamefully returns > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:22

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Just curious, have you thought about an E90 M3? High revving V8 sedan that is more DIY friendly and that s65 engine is proving to be one of the most reliable modern BMW engines (and not just for M cars).

EL_ULY > AM3R shamefully returns 07/16/2015 at 14:28

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The prices for e90 and e92 are out of my price range. Oddly enough, there are several e60 M5 just at or a little below $20k. Hard to find an M3 under $30k

phenotyp > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:28

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Yeah, I’ve driven 550s and 535s with the manual, and honestly preferred the auto. The manual just felt undercooked.

EL_ULY > ly2v8-Brian 07/16/2015 at 14:29

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I know I know, TrailBlazer SS AWD also. I guess the scream of the V10 is just too attractive to think right lol :]

EL_ULY > RallyWrench 07/16/2015 at 14:32

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once a 5er, always a 5er. THE last great bimmer for sure. While i’m typing this, we just took in a suuuuuuper clean 2008 V8 Vantage for $23k.

EL_ULY > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 07/16/2015 at 14:33

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after what i’ve learned today, e39 M5 with a manual seems to be the better option. I had a e36 M3 and have driven a couple e46, they seem a little too small for my 250 lbs booty lol :]

AM3R shamefully returns > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:34

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Oh I missed the $20k... That's a great E39 M5 budget! Even more DIY friendly.

RallyWrench > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:34

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Agreed. Damn, that Vantage sounds like a hell of a nice price!

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:34

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I’ve been told to stay away from the early models, and that finding a well serviced SMG model benefits the power band, modding opportunities, and usability of the car. (Something something too much power, as if, for the manual)

EL_ULY > JR1 07/16/2015 at 14:35

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I know man. G8 GT or Trailblazer SS AWD also. I guess the scream of that V10 makes my genitals tingle too much

EL_ULY > phenotyp 07/16/2015 at 14:36

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damn. I honestly would have never guessed that. The goofy 5 speed in my M3 was lovely.

EL_ULY > AM3R shamefully returns 07/16/2015 at 14:36

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indeed buddy :]

EL_ULY > RallyWrench 07/16/2015 at 14:38

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especially since that would be my price (plus $500 and TT&L) But nah, they are slow and parts are always on back order. Next year tho, fingers crossed. Just 250+ more 12 hour BS filled days :]

EL_ULY > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 07/16/2015 at 14:39

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seems to be the common theme. Ain’t nobody got time for dat

AM3R shamefully returns > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:39

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Even better.. They only came in manual so no pesky SMG to deal with. Vanos on the E39 isn't too bad.. I helped a friend with his M5 and I'm not that knowledgable under the hood. Look on M5board and check the classifieds.. You can pretty much get whatever you want for $20k. I suggest a lemans blue example!

EL_ULY > AM3R shamefully returns 07/16/2015 at 14:41

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dat blue is the best! A good set of headers, exhaust, and intake on a clean example would be ultra epic

AM3R shamefully returns > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:45

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Exactly what I would do! And if you ever get the itch for moar power... Pick up a used supercharger kit.

EL_ULY > AM3R shamefully returns 07/16/2015 at 14:51

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I’d think with intake and exhaust it should be rather nice. A supercharger would be straight but t-rex in sheeps clothing. More than anything, just keeping it ultra clean is key

ly2v8-Brian > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 14:54

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No doubt. Whatever you choose you will enjoy. I'm sure of it.

EL_ULY > ly2v8-Brian 07/16/2015 at 14:58

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Welp, these are starting to look way better now lol :]

JR1 > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 15:09

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Audi S6 has a pretty great V10 as well. Just gotta watch for carbon build up

AM3R shamefully returns > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 15:11

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Definitely, even stock the E39 is more than fine. Keeping it clean is key, BBS LM’s are a great wheel choice, the stock wheels are already so nice I can’t find many aftermarket wheels (besides LM’s) that look better.

EL_ULY > JR1 07/16/2015 at 15:13

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off top youtube to search “Audi S6 V10 Exhaust”

EL_ULY > AM3R shamefully returns 07/16/2015 at 15:13

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very true

JR1 > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 15:13

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It will make you tingle

Vicente Esteve > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 15:21

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Are you serious on the price of the Aston?!

EL_ULY > Vicente Esteve 07/16/2015 at 15:25

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We don’t give people shit for anything they trade in. In March, a guy traded in a 2013 Gallardo with under 2,000 miles. New it was almost $280,000, we gave him $113,000 for it :]

Vicente Esteve > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 15:31

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My absolute favorite M5. To me, this is the best looking, sounding and feeling M5 because it mixes the best of modern engineering with the best of old school. Thing is though it will be expensive as everyone else has said. Since you have wrenched on cars for a long time I don’t see why you couldn’t do it, I HIGHLY doubt people who are keeping these on the roads have your ability or experience.

My bet would be to find one with a manual as it is simpler and preferably through Carmax. Do all the preventive maintenance within weeks of purchase and enjoy it. If it is too much of a hassle, an E39 won’t let you disappointed but this is still a dream car for me.

EL_ULY > Vicente Esteve 07/16/2015 at 15:34

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and that seems to be the exact dilemma. That V10 is just something ultra epic. But, I can’t let the little auto enthusiasm I have get in the way of logic

Tapas > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 16:06

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Try and find a Manual. SMG blows. But the V10 is a screamer and mighty fast.

When you use the paddle shifters on an automatic E60 M5 with the M button on, the transmission might as well be on the Moon. Because it takes minutes to shift and you get a kick in the nads!

Okay, its not that bad. You sorta go into limbo expecting the power. And when it finally shifts, you get jerked into the next gear. So if you’re passing on the highway or driving spiritedly, you have to plan your shifts and brace. I don’t like that part.

If you’re just cruising around, its fine. The shifts aren’t that aggressive when the M button is off, but they’re still delayed.

I would personally prefer an E39 M5 or the Z4M:)

Disclaimer: I’m speaking from my limited experience with thrashing a lady friend’s M5. During my drive, the incredibly inebriated friend came to the car’s defense, saying its “not a luxury car, its a race car!”. I cringed but its ok. She’s not a car person (probably why she bought the E60 M5), but she bought something cool and she enjoys it and lets other people have fun too.

EL_ULY > Tapas 07/16/2015 at 16:43

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Wow, it’s crazy how the trans works. I’d pissed if I bought one and it drove like that. Still, doing clutch jobs ever 2 years and manual related issues tied to a fast revving engine is another can of worms on its own. Even if I do all the work, it seems like this vehicle might be too much for poor old me. I agree with you, i will probably focus less on that glorious V10 and shift to toward THE last great pure BMW M...

Tapas > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 17:04

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Alright!!!

Let me drive it if you get it. I’ve wanted to own one for a while now :)

Also, the Z4M is delicious :D

Check out this blue example. There aren’t a lot of Z4Ms with that color.

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/detail…

Vicente Esteve > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 22:51

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Man that is so sad...FOR THAT GUY

Vicente Esteve > EL_ULY 07/16/2015 at 22:53

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Precisely. I see it as a car for mobsters/criminals/wealthy who just don’t care what it takes to keep it in the road.

But out there there is a dude who knows the engine like the back of his hand and can mend it on the side of the road with a spoon and some bolts.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > EL_ULY 07/17/2015 at 02:44

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I love a good Euro super sedan but this is almost as bad an idea as a 220 S65. E39 M5 on the other hand, that one even tempts me.

Or... XJ6R. With key parts from a DB7 and some other clever mods, could probably put that car fairly close to 500hp.

EL_ULY > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 07/17/2015 at 09:44

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indeed sir. I knew there would be “those issues” but never like that with e60 M5

EL_ULY > Vicente Esteve 07/17/2015 at 09:46

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car repair = just nuts and bolts :]

EL_ULY > Vicente Esteve 07/17/2015 at 09:47

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that guy signed it off no problem. Millionaires, must be nice